58 The Worship Leader Trap Nobody Talks About | Stillness, Lament & Modern Worship Pressure

A pastoral conversation about stillness, lament, and the unseen pressure shaping modern worship. 

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In an age of highlight reels, viral moments, and emotional spectacle, worship leaders are carrying more pressure than ever before. Pressure to move. Pressure to impress. Pressure to create visible proof that something spiritual is happening.

We talk about:
→ Why movement has quietly become a metric for success
→ Making space for stillness, silence, and lament
→ How social media reshapes our expectations on stage
→ Leading people through grief, doubt, and quiet hope
→ Honoring your church culture while staying authentic
→ Designing worship sets that tell the truth before they proclaim victory

If you’ve ever felt pressure to manufacture emotion, keep the room energized, or compete with what you see online, this episode will reset your perspective — and remind you that faithful leadership isn’t about hype, it’s about presence.

ABOUT JUSTIN RIZZO

If you’re new here, my name is Justin Rizzo.

I'm a worship leader, songwriter, and filmmaker based in the Midwest, USA. I'm the founder of the Worship Leader Academy which has helped hundreds of worship leaders grow and develop through online community and one-on-one coaching.

How I got here…

7 yrs old: Love for music began with the recorder.
9 yrs old: Started drum lessons.  
12 yrs old: Parents taught how to lead worship.
13 yrs old: Led an original song at church.
13 yrs old: Vowed I'd never do it again. 
16 yrs old: Began to really love leading worship.
18 yrs old: Became a full-time worship leader.
19 yrs old: Broke my vow and began writing again.
20 yrs old: Recorded my first record.
23 yrs old: Leading began to feel like a burden.
24 yrs old: Blogged about worship leading.
25 yrs old: Started therapy and found healing.
26 yrs old: Called to produce musicals and films.
27 yrs old: Wrote and produced my first musical  
29 yrs old: Started my own production company.

Today: I live full-time as a worship leader and creative. I've written and produced three award- winning musical films, had millions stream my music, and travel the world leading worship and speaking at events.

Chapters

• 0:00 Framing The Question: Must We Move
• 1:03 Social Media’s Worship Success Metric
• 2:10 Defining Goals And Biblical Lens
• 2:21 Conference Announcement
• 2:22 Be Yourself And Personality
• 3:35 Coaching Versus Copying Others
• 6:32 Practical Coaching And Comfort On Stage
• 7:55 Psalms: Beyond Only Joy
• 10:49 Sorrowful Yet Always Rejoicing
• 13:17 The Pendulum Toward Constant Chipperness
• 16:11 Stillness As Reverence Not Passivity
• 18:17 Serving Your Church’s Culture

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey guys, welcome into another episode talking to my worship leader friends today. Again, feel free to keep listening if you're not a worship leader because it's gonna be a very interesting topic that we're gonna talk about. And it is this reality of as a worship leader standing on a platform in your congregation. There might be 25 people in the room on a Sunday, there might be 25,000 in the people, uh people in the room on a Sunday. And I want to specifically look at something that um I've been wrestling with for quite some time in this this TikTok YouTube age where you know you're seeing worship leaders all the time. And I want to bring um kind of a point of of clarity and maybe a different angle of the prism, if you will, than we than we normally see and we normally talk about. It is this should a worship leader who's leading that set how boisterous and moving and you know, with their hands and dancing and all this kind of stuff, how much movement do they have to have versus just standing there and letting the chips fall as they will? Okay. So we live again in a day and age where everything is videoed, everything is posted on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram. We're constantly seeing videos, and um in my summation, most of the videos that we see today um definitely favor the side of you know um dancing, moving around a lot, um, you know, kind of going crazy is what we want. And if you're not careful, that can subtly become the success metric of like, man, like uh worship pastor Bill was really going for it today, man. He was really feeling the spirit. Um, and it's less on the side of like, man, you know, like Bill was just standing still. It was so awesome. I just loved it. He was just standing there like a rock. It was just so beautiful. Like, you're probably not gonna hear that stated by one of your congregants, right? So, what what is what is the goal? What what what should we do as worship leaders? Is there one that is better than the other? Is there one, dare I even say, that is biblical, more biblical than the other? Um, what's the point of a Sunday morning congregational expression? Again, whether it's 25 people, you can be in a home group. Like you, you know, it doesn't have to be um at a in a even a church building. Like, what what do you do as a worship leader? What makes you um successful? Is there a success way? Now, obviously, if you're listening to this, you're like, no, there's not. And of course, the first thing that we go to is be yourself. Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. We'll get you back to the episode here in just one minute. I'm hosting a conference here in Kansas City for three days this March 2026 for creatives and entrepreneurs. It's called Creative Legacy. This is the fourth year that I'm hosting this event. It's gonna be an incredible, incredible time. Uh, you can get all the information at the QR code on your screen if you're watching this, or go to creativelegacy.org. It is March 19th through 21st, 2026, here in Kansas City. Would love to see you there, right? So, and that is a great place to start. But I'm gonna look at a couple other things a little bit deeper here in a moment. But the first and foremost thing is you have to be yourself. And everyone has this thing called a personality, okay? And um, if you're anything like me and a lot of different worship leaders that I coach, I coach hundreds of worship leaders and creatives. Um, most times, worship leaders or creatives or artists or whatever, one of the biggest wrestles that they face, one of the biggest humps they have to get over, is not wanting to be like everyone else. Because this painter, this dancer, this worship leader, this songwriter is successful. So I should probably look like them to be successful, right? And there's, you know, as a young artist, there's something to be said for that. I'm not saying that's evil or, you know, whatever. That's that's beautiful, that's great. Like, and I think a lot of artists even um, you know, you you replicate and then it becomes your own, right? And you can even look at his history uh with different guys like Van Gogh and you know, different ones who who did that with their masters of the day, they just taught to replicate and then they became to have their own craft, right? As a as a painter or sculptor. And so that that's a it's not an evil thing, it's not a bad thing. But at the end of the day, um a true artist or creative, uh and you know it if you if you crossed over, where it's like, you know what? Um it's not that you don't care in the sense of the word like I don't care, but you you don't care in a freeing, beautiful way. And you say, that's how that person, again, I'm I'm hype, I'm hyper-focusing on worship leading specifically in local churches. Um, right now I'm not talking about any other other sphere of artists right now. So those are the uh analogies and examples I'm gonna give. Where you can stand um in or sit in your home group at your college campus leading a set or on a stage of 10,000 people, and I am going to do what what I feel in my heart to do. And that might be like, man, like there's so much joy in my heart right now. I'm gonna just dance and like spin around and go crazy. That is beautiful, but it also might be, you know what, I feel so much joy in my heart, and I don't really want to move. I just want to stand here stock still, strumming my guitar with my eyes closed, right? And and I believe both of those things are are beautiful. So you do not have to move as a worship leader to be successful. So I'm gonna say that really, really clearly. You do not have to move around as a worship leader to be successful. And some somewhere along the line, we picked up the lie that you do, if you're not jumping, swaying, waving your arms, uh, visibly emoting on stage, that you're not really leading a congregation. And guys, that's that's just not true, okay? Now, are there like practical things? Like if you're a preacher and you just talk like this the whole entire time, John chapter one, verse one, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, the word was God, and you know, in him was life. Maybe there's like some practical things called voice inflection you could use as a preacher to you know allow your congregation to receive from your preaching a little bit more, you know. There's practical things you can do. I'm not saying as a worship leader, it's like I listened to a podcast from a guy who said I can just, you know, do whatever I want to do, and so I'm gonna look like a bum out of log or whatever. Um, but there's you know, there's a reality of like there's who you are, who you got who God made you to be, and then there's okay, who am I serving in this context? So, okay, God's made me to be a preacher. That's amazing, man. I preach on the street corner. That's amazing, man. I love that. You want to be a pastor of local congregation. Let's get you a couple of like just really simple, practical things to teach you as a preacher to do it a little bit better, to be a little bit more well received by the congregation. Okay, so the same applies um for worship leaders. So I don't think you should take a here's how to jump class or here's how to sway class. But you know, I've worked with different worshipers in the past where their pastor actually hired me uh, you know, to watch the web stream and to watch them and say, you know, I just feel like they're just a dud. Literally, this is a true story. This is like a dud on stage, and I need more from my congregation. And I was okay, like what's more? Like, do you want to, and I'm not gonna name names, but do you want it to be like this person or this person, whatever? Like, no, no, I don't want them to be any of those things. I just want them to be them. And I feel like they're not them. And I was like, okay, so I then I went to the worst and said, hey, are you you on stage? Like, do you feel peaceful? And the truth was they didn't. They were incredibly scared of just moving around even a little bit, felt like they were gonna show off, or felt like they were gonna, you know, look funny or whatever. And um, you know, body type comes in comes into this. Uh you're wearing a guitar, you're not wearing a guitar, you're at a piano, like there's all kinds of different practical things that come into this. And so we began to kind of you know dissect this situation with this worship leader, and then I'd go back to the pasture and we work on it, and then next Sunday we work on it, next Sunday we work on it, whatever. There began to just become like a even just a simple you know, sway in the leader that just become like, man, he feels comfortable now. Whereas before, you know, just like this, like you know, it's like you're you're clenched and tense, and it's like, man, you're gonna like pass out, your knees are locked, right? For your whole 25-minute set. So um, be yourself, absolutely. But there is a realm and a world in which coaching needs to take place. Now, that coaching, yes, and I know tons of pastors and worship leaders who've heard this from their pastors, where they bring out these the statements from the Psalms. Psalms talk about banners, flags, dancing, singing, rejoicing, clapping. Okay, it's all in the Psalms, right? So, and I understand we've all taught the class, we've all been in the class where it's like the seven ways to praise, right? And I love that. I love that. That's that's beautiful. Um, but that's very, very one-sided, okay? So again, I'm not against people doing that. That's beautiful. Look at the Psalms as to how to become a worship eater, beautiful. But I ask you to look at the Psalms in their entirety, and this is a big chasm I want to bring out that the Western church here in America has really, in my opinion, gone one side on, and it's focused on all the joyful things. Um, and I get it, like, in one sense I get it, in one sense I don't. And um, you know, I've even talked about this in some of my recent podcasts with some of my guests. Like, well, we want people to come to church and and and be happy because life is so so horrible. It's like we need we need happiness, like at the one place they can be happy, you know, and um, and I understand the desire for that. But in that desire, and of course, jumping, dancing, smiles, laughing as a worship leader means happy. But I asked this question, and I ask it sincerely and honestly. The psalms also talk about the way more, actually, they talk about lamenting and sorrow and trial and miry pits that we are in, right? And so we don't talk a lot about that. Like, no pastor I've ever known, no worship leader has ever heard this from their pastor. Like, I just want people to be very solemn Sunday, to know that life is fragile and they could die at any moment. Are they gonna go to heaven or hell? I've not heard a pastor coach their worship leader, you know, to be that way, as a worship leader. It's like, hey, pump them up, we want to be happy, you know. Again, I love this sacrifice of praise. Well, whether you feel it or not, raise your hands because we want them to know a sacrifice of praise is whether you feel it or not, you're gonna, ah, by God, he God is God is good. Oh, it's so good. And my question is this not that that's bad, but in our pendulum swinging way to that side, have you actually, pastor, worship leader, have you actually lost 80 to 90% of your congregation? And are they actually thinking that is not real? That might not be real. Not because they're judging you and saying, you dance funny, you're probably a faker. Not that, but because their life experience isn't like that. That they come into church, their son just died of cancer. The woman just got a notification from her lawyer that the husband's filing for divorce. They just lost their job, and we think the remedy to that is to be, you know, um John Piper uh gave this amazing sermon called Sorrowful Yet Always Rejoicing, quoting the the Apostle Paul. Sorrowful, and he's John was actually talking to his worship team, saying, I want you to lead them in such a way where there is sorrow but always rejoicing. What does sorrow but always rejoicing look like on a Sunday morning? It may not look like we're gonna dance our way, you know, until we feel the joy of God. And I I'm asking this sincerely and honestly, have many of our congregants seen through um, not that anyone's intended to be a charade, but have have they seen through the charade and they're putting up with 25 minutes of you know, happy go lucky chipper-ness when nothing in them is chipper, when all they're longing for is a song about lament, you know, and and most of the songs on the CCLI top 100 or whatever, very, very few of them spend more than 30 seconds per song in a C in a space of lament. We might lament for the first 30 seconds that we were so dead by verse 2, we're alive in Christ. By the bridge, we're building it up, and the chorus is like Jesus' blood, like I love that. And again, like guys, I write songs, I'm in this space, okay? I'm not demonizing that, I'm not saying that's bad. Um, and there's a beauty to you know to drawing people out of that and into hey, let's get our minds on truth here, right? Through this beautiful song. And I and I love that, but I'm still posing a question to say it's not a right or wrong type of thing. And the pendulum is way over here. Where we're telling worship leaders, pastors are saying, gotta be 150 BPM, gotta be happy, we're rejoicing people. By God, we're gonna rejoice. I just don't think that's how uh the human psyche works. Again, I'm I'm all for you know shocking the the shocking yourself back into truth and be like, man, what's been what's wrong with you? I had a horrible afternoon. I was in a funk at work. You come home, you're like, man, I have like a spouse and kids, or I I I can put food on the table, or you know, I get to go on a walk in a beautiful day. Why why am I feel so garbage today? Like, what's going on, right? That that you know, shock gets gets us out of our funk, right? And can songs do that on Sunday morning? Absolutely. But you know what else can do that? Looking at a mountain, going on a walk, having a dog, having a spouse, having a close friend who's you know, loving on you or just kind to you or whatever, right? And so um, there is not a success for this is the way that it's done. Even though in Western church we want to be smiley, we want to keep our eyes open and and you know make eye contact with the the congregation. And I just think a lot of these people over here in the congregation are like, I don't feel that way. I don't want to make eye contact with you. And it's not even that I'm necessarily depressed, but maybe when I come into church and see this like smiley chipperness, it's just harder for me to like kind of become smiley and chipper because I don't that's not how I am when I'm when I'm chipper, right? And so uh again, I'm not posing some like perfect here's how it should be. I'm simply posing problems that I see. I think that the pendul needs to swing uh just a little bit. Again, so many of the psalms talk about sorrow and being in a lamenting place. So if you want to look at the the songbook that's withstood thousands of years, well, we're just pretty much cherry-picking all the happy-go-lucky things to make CCLI type songs, and that's like, is that really like what we want to be doing? Again, major overly overly exaggerated statement. I I've never once thought I've written dozens of songs from the Psalms. I've never once thought I'm cherry-picking a verse. Like, so that's probably the wrong way to say it. But you get you get the heart of what I'm saying. Psalm 46 says, be still and know that I'm God. I I did a post on socials the other day, uh, just like, man, as worship leaders, can we just like stop singing and just let music play for like 30 seconds? Like for 30 seconds, worship leaders, try this next time you lead, Wednesday night or Sunday morning, for 30 seconds of just music, and you're not looking around. What's what's the congregation doing? You're like focused on the Lord. Maybe your electric player, your keys player is just kind of playing a melody line, the whole band's playing, and let the music breathe, let the set just breathe. We don't always have to be just like, you know, God, we look to you or God, we do this, or no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, um, be still and know that I am God. Stillness isn't passivity, it's reverence, right? It says, God, you don't need me to do nothing but be present, right? Where we need worship leaders who have that kind of reverence for God, and they trust that God is in the room in each person by the Holy Spirit, but at the corporate uh encounter level, God is there. You don't have to coax God into doing something, right? Again, I'm I'm all for prayer, I'm all for acknowledging Him. Again, don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm trying not to like pigeonhole myself into like this one little thing. This is a vast issue, okay? This is a very, very vast issue. A big Bible verse. Um, 1 Samuel 16, 7. You know this verse if you've been a Christian more than a week. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at your heart. Okay? Now, again, this isn't like a license for you to go tell your pastor, hey, I heard a podcast from a guy who's been worship leading for 25 years, and he said I can just do whatever I want, just be still, and it's all good. Like, no, there's a reality of if you're a worship pastor at a church, paid or not paid, you are choosing to serve at that church. And so if that pastor's if that pastor says, Hey, need you to smile more, hey, need you to have four singers up front. I want them like looking out to the congregation and just you know being whatever. You are choosing to be there. Okay? You're choosing to be in a culture like that. I'm not saying it's a even a bad culture or an evil culture, it's not the culture that I uh want to be a part of. Um, but you're choosing to be there. So you can't go in demonizing the very culture, even if they're not paying you. You're choosing to lead on that stage, okay? Um, go find a different church that's like doesn't, you know, uh want to look at that, right? Um, but at the end of the day, whether you're offering guys, I've lifted my hands in worship so many times when I don't feel it. I'm not performing, I'm I'm offering a sacrifice of praise. I'm doing Romans chapter 12. Offer your body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable, pleasing to God. Um, this is the worship that my heart is seeking to give, right? So I'm not just saying like I don't feel like dancing, not gonna dance. There are times when you begin to dance, to say, you know what, I'm gonna break off this funk that I'm in and remember the joy of my salvation, restore me to the joy of my salvation. And that happens through action. So I'm not I'm not encouraging inaction necessarily. I'm simply trying to swing the pendulum and make us think just a little bit more about, you know, worship pastor to 50 member church, you're 16 years old and what you see on YouTube. Like you don't have to be that. That does not make it, you know, successful. Be true to who you are, be true to what your pastor uh is asking you to serve in the way of your congregation, but try and remember that the holisticness, if I could use that term in this context, the holistic reality of being a worship leader, a worship pastor, and pastoring a congregation. Um, you're not just pastoring them when you preach. Guys, every single Sunday when you get up for 25 minutes to lead a set, you're pastoring them, you're shepherding them in more ways than you're even aware of. And I just think a lot of people would be shepherded and pastored if we brought it back to this reality of not just having, you know, a lament song or a lament moment for like 30 seconds, but actually like staying in this place of unrest. It's like, man, I'm used to always feeling joyful at church. And, you know, and again, I understand why pastors want it to be that way. Pastors will even just say, I'm not, I'm not here to make you feel bad, but you know, it's what the Bible says. It's like, okay, I love that, but let's be clear like there's a lot of things that that happened, and and uh it's okay for us to like wrestle with God, right? Um, Jesus led from a place of stillness, Matthew chapter 26, The Last Supper. He sang a hymn with his disciples. Um, Elijah heard a whisper in the wind. I could go on. Uh, so many lament psalms um we could look at and talk about. You can just Google that or find those on your own. Um, and again, there are tons of praise psalms as well, but there are way more lament type songs, psalms, than there are ones that tell you just to dance and leap for joy. And so, again, my heart in doing this podcast is not to cause division, it is to cause conversation to happen. And maybe you're like, dude, you're you're just out of touch, you're thinking way too much. Great, put just turn this podcast off and go do your thing. I bless you. That is awesome. But I I coach and work with a lot of worship leaders and a lot of local pastors at churches. And um, I think there's just some some dialing in, some honing in of the realities that we've given ourselves to, maybe just unknowingly, where it's like, well, we need to dance, we need to do this, we need to do this. It's like, well, let's step back. Is that actually serving our congregation uh the best way that we possibly can?