050 The Biggest Struggle Most Creatives Face (And Nobody Talks About)

Creative isolation might be the most common struggle that most creatives face. 

Whether you're leading worship at a megachurch with hundreds of musicians or creating solo from your home studio, the absence of true creative community can leave you feeling adrift and uninspired.

When you make all your decisions in isolation, it can become incredibly challenging and often leads to stagnation of pursuing your gifts.

Waiting for the perfect season, schedule, or set of circumstances to pursue your creative ideas is a trap, and honestly, most of the time it's fear disguised as wisdom.

We need one another.

Follow Jordan Marcotte on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jordanamarcotte

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Building Creative Community
• 4:48 Start With Purpose, Not Just People
• 7:21 Go Where Creatives Gather
• 10:39 Be The First To Invite
• 13:58 Go Deep With A Few Creatives
• 15:34 Commit Even When Inconvenient
• 23:15 Be The Creative You Want To Attract
• 36:05 Pray Specifically For Creative Connections

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, what's up guys, Welcome in to the RizCast podcast. I'm your host, justin Rizzo, excited to be joined again by my friend, jordan Marcotte. If you've been listening to the show this season, you've heard a lot from him. But it's just really enjoyable to kind of get together and talk, and so today we're going to talk about a really, really good topic that we both have a lot of thoughts on. I think it's going to be really encouraging to you guys. But if you don't know who Jordan Marcotte is amazing musician, singer, coach, speaker you can check him out on Spotify and he does speaking at events and kind of soul and heart coaching and he's just an amazing person to know. But today we're going to talk about something that, something that, again, we have a lot of thoughts on because we've lived this out.

Speaker 1: 0:49

I've been a full-time creative for over 22 years and jordan's been a full-time creative 20, 15, 20 years. I believe it is yeah, yeah and um. One of the the greatest challenges, I think, as a creative and working with a lot of creatives is to find community. As a creative, I coach a lot of worship leaders and singers and musicians around the world and they join my coaching program because they think that they're getting you know coaching, one-on-one coaching, which is great, but really what I lead them to and what keeps them around my world is the community that they find, not just with me, but with each other as worship leaders, and they have this common thread around their creativity. And so we want to talk today about how to find and build a creative community, and there's seven things that we're going to talk about that will help you find and build a creative community. So you might be listening to this as a worship pastor at a multi-site campus church and you have 50 or 100 series musicians around you.

Speaker 1: 1:57

I've had experiences, as well as many of my clients, that even in that context of being a part of a mega ministry, when you can feel so alone Because I think sometimes you assume, man, if I just had the big or lots of people, you'd have community, lots of people it doesn't mean you're going to have a community. You could be like ships passing in the night, airplanes in the sky. It's like, ah, maybe I wave at you from my airplane, but I'm over here with my own fear, my own insecurity, my own dreams, my own envy, and I'm going to keep you at a, at an arm's distance right, there's all kinds of things. You can be at a small church thinking man, if I just had, like you know, a bigger community and sometimes it's like man. There's beauty in the small, do you find to build community, whether at a large or a small ministry, or creatives in general? But we'll be focusing specifically on worship teams, worship leaders. It's a lot of our listener base, but this will apply no matter what your creativity is.

Speaker 1: 2:54

If you're a sculptor, painter, dancer, whatever it is, first thing that I think you have to do is start with the purpose behind your creativity, not just searching for people. We all know the verse in Proverbs with out of vision, people perish. If you're just looking for a fellow worship leader who can crush it with you, but their vision is completely different than yours, which again, a lot of times at megachurches. That is the issue. It's like man. There's so many people. Why do I feel like a shit passing in the night? Well, it's because your vision is to do X, y, z. Their vision is to do ABC. You guys could not be further apart from each other in the alphabet right, and your your dreams. Maybe there's some crossover, but at the end of the day. They're leaving your creative session, your songwriting session being like man, they're just like over here, I ain't over there, I'm over here. I'm probably not going to write with that person anymore, I'm not going to hang out with that person anymore. Coffee with them is a drag, right? So you have to find the vision that matches your vision. Without a vision, people perish, right? We all know that verse. It's massively over-quoted in the. I mean, can you over-quote a Bible verse? I don't know, but it's used all the time in the church, right? So don't just start looking for people. Keep your ears and eyes and your heart open for man.

Speaker 1: 4:16

What that person's talking about is jiving with my vision of what I want to do as a songwriter, as a worship leader, as a creative. I want to, you know, begin to team up and to partner with that person. So that's the first thing. Don't just start looking for people like oh my God, he plays guitar, he must be the. You know he's a songwriter, you know whatever. So how do you find that you hang out with the person? You buy them a coffee, like hey, like what's your dream with your creativity? What's your dream as a worship leader, right?

Speaker 1: 4:44

Second thing, that will really massively help you is to go where creatives gather. Now again, if you're at a mega church, this one might be a little easier for you. You know I work with somebody here in the States that they have a. It's not even for their worship team, it's for their creatives in their church and it's so life-giving as they gather together. Now their mission and vision is the church's mission and vision, so there's a natural thrust in the right direction there. But they have they're bringing the AV guys, they have guys who want to be cinematographers and make movies, they have painters who come in and they do like one huge production, usually Easter, sometimes Christmas, where all the elements of the arts are brought together.

Speaker 1: 5:27

It's not just in the worshiping side of things, but look for, you know creatives who gather in the songwriting space. If there's a songwriting group you can join Again. You know justtermizotrainingcom. If you're a songwriter and you want to co-write and team up with other people three hours a month, you're held accountable to songwrite and co-write all on Zoom and it's. I mean I've had seasons in my songwriting program where you know someone from New York, pennsylvania, texas and Singapore were writing together once a month. They found each other they never would have found each like Singapore, texas, new York couldn't be, you know, couldn't be further from each other. They never would have found it Like Singapore, texas, new York couldn't be further from each other. But you need to be where other creatives are. Again, to quote Proverbs 27, iron sharpens iron, as one man sharpens another. So go where creatives gather. If you're at a smaller church, you might look for art collectives or meetups, faith-based initiatives, online things. There's so many things to be a part of Jordan. You'll talk about this one here.

Speaker 1: 6:30

The third thing so, to summarize first one, start with a purpose, not just people. Second one go where creatives gather and look for someone who has that vision that you have. And the first one, jordan, which you're a master at be the first to invite. Be the first to invite. Don't just sit around. We've both worked with tons of creatives where it's like man, I just, I just wish I had a, had a community of people to to create with. It's like well, have you ever asked anybody? Well, no, I mean, I feel like I've been at this church for five years. I feel like it's, you know, it's five years past due when I should be invited, you know, to do something. It's like well, have, have you ever like? Sent a text you ever like, offered to buy someone coffee and you know be the first to invite. So, jordan, take us on that one.

Speaker 2: 7:18

Um, there, there's not. There's probably a lot to say about it, but, but I, there's probably a lot to say about it, but but I won't harp on it being the first to invite. I was thinking about this the other day, even with in regards to friendship. I was talking to my wife about this, like in regards to friendship, and someone was someone was giving advice top three things on what to do, on how to navigate friendships when you get older. I, I'm not like super old, but 35, two kids, about to have another one in four weeks.

Speaker 2: 7:47

It's like friendship is more challenging and I don't, I don't realize, I didn't, I never realized in friendship. Maybe you could say that this is a little petty, but I think sometimes you like, in trying to figure out who's for me, who am I running with in this season, you know I feel lonely, I want this, I want that, whatever. Sometimes we out of desire, we want to be pursued so bad that we just never go first and you realize that everyone's busy. You know, like the moment I knew that I was older was when I was scheduling time with a friend to hang out and they were like OK, cool. So what do you guys think about next month?

Speaker 2: 8:30

You know and I was like what Next month, you know, but then the wild, you know. But then you put it in the calendar and it's there, and and there's not. It's not any different, I think, with creativity, when it comes to finding community you have, you just have to go first and the reality is is like, even when I think about me and your friendship man, like we, you know, we came from from, you know, same ministry background, ish, we, we do. We did the same thing in regards to worship leading, songwriting, all that stuff. But more than anything, we just found ourselves in the same place almost every morning drinking coffee, finding out that really it was our love for coffee that caused us to go back to the same environment. And it was over just communication, moment after moment after moment, where that's what led us here today. It actually wasn't about worship leading. It actually wasn't about worship leading. It actually wasn't about even creativity. Yeah, it was just about being able to connect and find that there were like mutual, like you know, desires and obviously how we like, our personalities and whatever right, Entrepreneurship, all that other stuff that you would have thought that we would have bonded over, the thing that we had both done for 15, 25 years. Yeah, but it actually wasn't, and that's what was cool. But it took time and it took consistency to build that and to have those conversations.

Speaker 2: 9:51

Yeah, so going first, man, I think you have to just like get over your ego, get over your fear and like let go of the expectation of. This needs to be something that immediately runs deep, that this needs to be something that's going to go the distance. That's just not how it works, and you know and I understand that our time is valuable and all those things, but listen, if you're someone who is just looking for, you're struggling. You don't even know how to be able to get in rooms to find if we're, we have shared purpose. You don't even know what it means to be able to pursue going where creatives are. It's like you have to just go first, that's it. So I can harp on that, but it's just like get over yourself and go first.

Speaker 1: 10:31

You said it like that was going to be my next question Like, why, why would someone not want to and you said it in paralleling it to friendship is a great thought. The fear of being rejected? Like no, I don't, I don't have time for coffee, which, again, if you're talking to somebody who has their, their life in order and they want to have margin and space in their life, then you know there's all kinds of of of uh, influencers and guys who train on this out there of like no is one of the most powerful things you can ever say. So, as we're talking about this, it's like, you know, be initiate. It's like, well, that's a really, you know, if the person's an influential person or they're very busy and you know they're busy because you follow them on instagram it's like, oh, my god, they're doing this, or traveling, their business, their ministry, whatever, whatever.

Speaker 1: 11:14

It is like what if they say no? What if I meet with them? And it's just like super god, awful, awkward. What if they reject me, you know, and um, their valuable, my time is valuable. Is it really going to be worth? Is that person really all that? Do I really want to take two hours to have coffee with them and you're talking to your spouse about it. It's like it's two hours of your life I get time is valuable, but if you're looking for a creative community, you have to take risk. You do.

Speaker 1: 11:41

And it can't be the first to initiate.

Speaker 2: 11:42

It can't, yeah, first to initiate. It can't, yeah, like you. Just, you got to move away from. You got to deal with the fears, you got to deal with the rejection, you got to deal with the insecurity and you got to have a. You got to have a greater goal than just like. Does this affirm me? I mean, that's just.

Speaker 2: 11:54

We're now, we're getting into locker room, coach, talk a little bit, but like, if it yeah, if it's just about you, it's going to wound you. But probably it's going to wound you because you've already been wounded and so it's like. That's the only reason that there's like that level of like hesitation or insecure, and so it's like, yeah, they may say no great. Also there's gonna be days where you need to say no great, do that. Yeah, you know it doesn't mean never, doesn't it just like not right now, or like, sure, the conversation went bad, but guess what? Like or not bad, maybe it just is like yeah, that didn't land the way I thought it was and that's okay, you know, cause you just never, you're just never going to know, you know so and we've said this before in conversation, I think even on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 12:34

I had a counselor one time I was talking to and he was in his late fifties or early sixties and he said to me. He said, justin, do not assume that you will have friends in your late fifties and sixties.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Like, don't assume that when you're in community with people, you have a great church or ministry you're part of, like, oh man, I'm like all these friends, when in actuality you have a bunch of acquaintances that when they move cross country or across the world you lose touch, whatever it is. So he said work hard now and he was challenging me personally. He was challenging me and my wife as a couple. Like who are the couples that you guys hang out with that when you call they're going to pick up the phone. You know, like we live in such a culture of text communication and, you know, depending on personality or whatever, you get quote unquote, ghosted. You know people are horrible at responding to texts, you know, and some of that's personality, some of it's just people are busy or whatever. Once the little you know dot goes away on your texts, I get it that it's like oh man, I forgot. Well, it doesn't mean you're not valuable to me, it's just like you know it got, went down in the text or whatever. Everyone has a different um placement of where that's at. You know, um, but who is the friend that's going to pick up that phone when I call and I need prayer or I have a great idea, I want to, you know, run by them, whatever, and so be the first to initiate and and and do that, which is the second. So the fourth point um, go deep with a few very young.

Speaker 1: 13:58

In my career I feel like I needed like 50 or 40 or 25 people in my creative swirl and um, it's really really hard to have depth with that. Many fellow creatives Find a few people two, four, six, whatever that you can really really go deep with. And again, you need to have the same vision and values. So, as creatives, jesus needs to be first. As Christian creatives, jesus needs to be first. The person probably has to have a desire to grow in excellence and want to grow, and they want to give and not just take. Those are the people in my opinion. It's like well, who do I go deep with? If you're being challenged by them, you're not just doing all the challenging. There's a give and take on that. They're challenging you as well, not saying I'm not sure if any one of my entrepreneurial friends, you included, have ever said you know, justin, I just want to challenge you right now, so get out your pen, I'm going to challenge you. It's like that's weird and awkward. You don't need to say that you know, you just do it. It's just who you are. And a lot of times, challenging is affirming the idea that your friend had and one-upping it. And I remember I was talking to a friend of mine about an event. I was doing a very large event and they said dude, that's incredible, what if you do this as well? And I literally got out my pen and paper and was taking notes, so go deep with a few.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Fifth one here, jordan, I'm going to lob this back to you Commit, even when it's inconvenient. If you're listening to this, you're a singer, musician, worship leader, songwriter, whatever it is tell me when it will be convenient for you to pursue your creative journey. Tell me when it will be convenient to go buy a business. Tell me when it'll be convenient to start a business from scratch, online or whatever it is right. There's never going to be a convenient time. Well, if you're on this side of it and you're married with a couple of kids, but if you're not, then that's the time. But, like back, when you're single was the convenient time, but now you're married with kids or life has happened. You know, whatever it is like, there's never going to be a convenient time. So commit, even when it's inconvenient. Jordan, talk to us about that.

Speaker 2: 16:14

We, uh, you know, we, we, we hit a thread on this in a previous episode, but I think you were asking me about um. I think I had said something real firm, like I don't believe in writer's block or something like that, which which got us into the conversation around, like creative resilience and and discipline, and it's, you know, um, it's easy to look at it, yeah, as like a father, um husband, three kids, um, there's nothing about life that feels, there's just nothing about life that feels convenient. And I guess it depends on if we're talking about like again, if we're talking about creativity, if we're talking about songwriting, if we're talking about, um, the current state of how you are. This circles back to the thing we talked about a couple of points ago, where it's like, uh, sometimes, sometimes what feels inconvenient is is how, how, like the condition of our current state, whether it's mental, emotional. You know, like, I'm going to wait until circumstances really align themselves right, because that's where like, sometimes, like, let's say, we're talking to people who aren't married with kids, well, inconvenience might also be like, might look like.

Speaker 2: 17:32

You know, back to the insecurity thing. I'm not where I need to be. It takes too much effort to try and do this. I don't want to deal with the emotional toll of this. I do not want to figure out how to get money. I don't want to do it until I get the money for this. You know, I don't want to build a career until I can launch a successful $8 million Kickstarter and then launch my thing. I only have a phone and a guitar. I'll go on and on dude. You know what I mean. I don't have a website for my business. It's like, bro, I left ministry cold turkey. No money, no website, no Instagram Started telling the story.

Speaker 2: 18:14

We turned $100,000 in less than 12 months. Nothing was convenient, justin, not one thing. You were there. You watched it. You watched me trying to do five different brand, five different brand ideas. You know like what can work, what's going to stick, until I was put literally into the environment of inconvenience. I mean not no, there was nothing convenient, you know about it, and it was just like back to our, our previous episode, but it was like we just had to move.

Speaker 2: 18:49

So, anyways, man, like to learn to commit. I think you have to have a vision. I think you have to know what you're shooting for. I think that if you do not have that, then it makes it hard again. Like I was a white belt who wanted to be a black belt. I saw what was before me and I saw what was laid out and I was able to commit to that because I had a vision which informed the purpose as to why I even chose to commit in the first place. So it didn't matter if it was hard, it didn't matter if I was going through a valley, a this, a that or whatever there was. There was vision there, and so commitment can't commitment. I will say this commitment can't just always be like. I just drudged through it, Like for what? What is it unto If you can't communicate, like where you're headed?

Speaker 1: 19:44

you know what I?

Speaker 2: 19:44

mean you talk about this all the time, like you're not going to.

Speaker 2: 19:49

You have a vision in fire, like creative, for instance, you know what I mean, you have a mission, you, you, there's a, there's a reason as to why you assume risk, there's a reason as to why you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 20:00

Like you invest financially time, why you do the things that you do. And I know that that sounds really like simple, but if I think a lot of creatives, entrepreneurs, whatever it does, get easy to throw ourselves out there and become so disillusioned to the thing that we, we, we don't even know why we're committing, and that that that ends up becoming something that becomes an annoyance to people, cause it's like commit, commit, and it sounds, it sounds just like a locker room talk where we're just trying to do like empty motivation, but we do, like we have to understand, like why and how we apply discipline and why we make the choices that we make every single day to show up and so so anyways, yeah, life, life is not convenient. I just I'm not sure if there's a convenient time. I'm trying to find it. If someone has it holler at me, but anyhow, there you have it.

Speaker 1: 20:52

I've come to realize I don't think there will never be a convenient time to build something that actually matters. There will never be a convenient time to build something that actually matters. And when you think about it, if things are convenient, it births sitting on the couch. If things are convenient, it births lethargy and more sloth, not legacy. So in actuality, in my opinion, school of hard knocks here, and if you're a business owner or someone who's produced something written, a book or whatever it is, there was nothing convenient about that. But now you've stewarded something for the kingdom of heaven and you begin to, you know that legacy drive and you was like, no, I'm doing this for my kids or for my nieces or nephews, or for this. You know these hundreds or billions of people, whatever it is, whatever scale you're at, we're called to do it, and convenience will never, it'll never be a convenient time to do something that's that's meaningful and long lasting. Because if things are convenient, at least in my life, I can just really really easily get into kind of a slothful mindset.

Speaker 2: 22:05

I think it exposes motive, man Like, if the goal is to pursue convenience, we're not really. We're not. What are we really trying to do, you know? Um, it's good, yeah, so anyways it's really good.

Speaker 1: 22:19

And two, two verses on this. Um Galatians six, verse nine let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. And on that verse, I love saying this to people Cause you know I grew up, you know hearing about Galatians, chapter six, and you know God will not be mocked. Whatever man does, you know he's going to reap. So if you do this in the secret place, you're going to reap this. You know, if you sin in your creativity, if you sow, you know whatever it is, you're going to reap the good as well. That's galatians 6, verse 9, and then luke 16, verse 10 whoever is faithful with little will be given much, and I love that so much.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Um, sixth way uh, be be the kind of creative that you want to attract. Be the kind of creative that you want to attract. Be the kind of creative that you want to attract. So, uh, championing other people's works that can look as simple as you know, commenting on on social media on someone's uh, you know song that they released and you're like, you know you might be tempted to have like man, I wish that was me. I released that song. Or is that person's released like 25 songs are released like zero in the last two years, right, and it's like, man, I wish that was me. I released that song. I was that person's released like 25 songs I've released like zero in the last two years, right, and it's like, if you give into that that the jealousy and the envy of the comparison game, it's not going to end well for you. But if you like, if you give a comment, you'd be like you know what this is actually like a really, really solid song. Um, be the kind of creative that you want to be. Give honest, life-giving feedback. This is huge Jordan for you and I in our life. If you want to comment on this here in a second, like I don't.

Speaker 1: 24:02

If I share, whether it's a song, a book idea, a business idea, an idea for my online community, whatever it is and you don't do this, which is why we're good friends. But I was like, hey, man, that's cool, dude Love that. Hey, I've been thinking about an idea for this. It's like, like I, I don't just want someone to like stamp my ideas and say, dude, you're awesome, man, uh, and then you just pivot the conversation. Be the kind of creative you want to be like, yeah, I actually. Hey, dude, if you thought, is that like the wisest idea? Hey, I like, I love and respect you and you say this to me, I say this to to you all the time. I feel like there's there's this mutual respect of like, hey, you're smart, I'm not saying you're dumb, but have you thought of, you know, pivoting this way? So, be the kind of creative you want to be, you know why? Because it's going to attract that person, that creative person, to say Justin, didn't just give me the run of the mill.

Speaker 1: 24:52

Like oh yeah man, great song bro, Great job, great job. Make it on spotify, it's gonna be a hit. And you said the last six songs I sent you like are you even listening to the songs? Do you even care about me? Creatives want to be challenged by other creatives to do better work.

Speaker 2: 25:07

um jordan, they have a lot of thoughts on that I mean, you nailed it, dude, like we have to, we have to welcome, we have like that's the beauty of collaboration at the end of the day. How are you not?

Speaker 1: 25:21

offended though, when, when someone, when I or whoever says dude, that's cool. Have you thought of this?

Speaker 2: 25:28

Because it's not about me dude Like I. I learned this in songwriting a long time ago. The goal was never about trying to like, like needing people to obsess and glorify over how cool my idea was. I want I want to make the greatest impact. I want this to be the best piece of work, art, idea that it possibly can be, and the only way to do that is to be like that. I mean that that's just like creation 101. You know, even all of create, all the whole universe, and all that was made was not even done through one isolated expression. There was collaboration from the beginning, and so it's like it's hard.

Speaker 2: 26:03

But again it goes back to like, how deep do we want to talk about? Like our emotional state and how well we are? Like if it, if we need this to sign off on our validity, if we need this to tell us how good we are, how cool we are, because we were shut down when we were kids or shut down creatively, it's like we need to get healed from that. But at the end of the day, if we want to make impact, it has to be in service of others, and our a hundred percent isolated ideas don't? They're not always the things that like need like. So, when I present something to you, or like when you present something to me, like sometimes we have to get out of our own way because, no, I don't care how, I don't care how disciplined, strategic minded, ideated, whatever any person is, we will always be precious about our ideas, and so we'll always be a little blinded, always. Yeah, I truly believe that, and that's why I think being able to run it against somebody who can like see it does not mean that like to help you get, like to help you think differently, to help you like be reminded of what is the goal and the intent and the reason as to why we're doing this. What is the purpose of this particular idea, you know? And are we losing the part of it where it's in service of others and embracing the part of it where it helps us feel good about ourselves?

Speaker 2: 27:17

Because we did something that people thought was cool, and for a dude, even like me, who's lived the majority of his life, you know, using my giftings and performance as survival, you know I've had to learn to really like have that crushed in my life, and so I think you don't get offended by actually healing the parts of that, that are looking for it, to affirm you, and directing all of that effort and attention toward how can this be the greatest thing to impact others, and that's how we allow others to come in and speak into it without us having to get our feelings heard about it. But I'm telling you, man, like I'm not trying to go into therapy here, I'm just saying like, like, if we, if we got crushed as as kids, because we didn't get chosen, because our idea didn't win the science fair, because of all of these you know what I mean Like and we don't know how to redirect that into something positive, then we'll be chasing that, that validity and affirmation, even into all of this, you know, and that becomes really, really detrimental. Because for anyone who's a creative, anyone who's trying to build something, anyone who's trying to take something, anyone who's trying to take risk, anyone who's trying to collaborate, golly, it just makes it so hard, because it's hard to green light session If someone says, oh, that's not it, and it's like OK, cool, yeah, that's cool, you know like. Ok, that's not it, ok, cool, man, like, you know like, and so I love that about. Like, our, our, uh, dynamic in relationship. You know what I mean, it's just like, like it's an honor dude to be able to.

Speaker 2: 28:43

Like, you know, I'm like, I want I want this to be ripped apart. Does this suck? Yeah, totally no, man. Like, this isn't about me, bro, I'm so grateful that I can steward, and I literally had this idea with godly folk yesterday. I invited three other people into the room and I said like I, I don't need. Like, I want this to be the best that it could possibly be for the community. You know, I want this to be a legacy brand. Like I, this is not about me having all of the greatest ideas. I could care less about that.

Speaker 1: 29:08

So anyways, man, yeah, that's, that's just my opinion. And on the the songwriting side of things you mentioned, if you're in co-writing session, if you hold onto your idea like it's your little baby, like I was, I was just church brought me in to do some songwriting and we wrote a lot of songs in a very, very short amount of time and everyone in the room was very, very aware that our ideas are not our babies. Like we're just we're throwing things out there. We're trying to be a vessel the Lord can just flow through. And you know, man, like I love that I'm not a fan of that idea. Whatever, it is just open, honest communication.

Speaker 1: 29:46

I'm a production company, for I like creative. And when you're doing a movie and there's, you know, 90 to a hundred people involved in making this movie, obviously you have the vision. You have to make sure the vision is clear. Jeff Bezos I quote all the time. He's like I am stubborn on vision. I'm incredibly flexible on the details of how we accomplish that vision Right. So, on a film set or a pre-production, post-production, on the onset, whatever it is like, yeah, the vision's clear, but you have to be open. I have to be open to those 90 to a hundred people and their ideas to make this thing the best possible film we can do. And if I'm holding on, I'm like no, I'm the director of this thing, I'm the one who's doing it, I'm the producer, I'm forking over all this money and raising it. It's going to be my way or the highway, not going to be a very good film, and that person's not going to work with me and it just begins to.

Speaker 2: 30:29

You know, you guys get what I'm saying it when you're beginning creative like efforts.

Speaker 1: 30:36

Right, what's a green light session?

Speaker 2: 30:38

Yeah, so like if we were to get into a room we can use songwriting as an example or whatever you know, or like, let's use, let's just use like a creative project, right. It's like if you get on the whiteboard and it's like, okay, guys, 15 minutes, green light, go, anything goes, and it gets. It gets, it gets accounted for, and so it's not. It's not about trying to crack the code, get to the end of it, whatever. It's that all five people in the room, here's the. We're just ideating. And it's green light. Because I will say, sometimes what happens is when we're doing it in sequence and it's linear like this, we hyper focus on what serves this thing right here versus someone's idea that might end up influencing something down here, and so I've found that green light sessions are really, really beautiful, because one it gives everyone the opportunity to just ideate freely, with no judgment.

Speaker 2: 31:30

So one it encourages them, whether they're mature in it or immature in it. First of all it builds culture. But second is you actually do get the full breadth of ideation laid out on the board or on paper, and then you guys get to then like spider web and see what really stands out, and so that's why I think that that's really beautiful, especially with, like, sometimes that can be hard with songwriting, because oftentimes we are looking at it like sequentially or like linear, you know, and so it's like whether we're building a chorus or we're looking for a word or whatever you know. But you just like, you just never know.

Speaker 2: 32:05

And I remember like doing big rights, like my, our first time, me and my wife's first time doing, you know, a writer, a writer's weekend in Nashville was just so powerful because I'll just never forget like, like we wrote some of the best songs ever and it was because we're sitting in a room with some of the best songwriters and like our ideas were coming to life in ways that we could have never done it on our own, you know, and I remember one song probably would have felt like one of the simplest songs, but, man, like we had like eight writers on that thing and it was so beautiful to see it because where, where one person felt stuck, the next person could pick it up and it just like there was never a dull lull moment in the entire session, and so it's just beautiful.

Speaker 2: 32:46

So, yeah, man, I mean I don't care what you're doing like. I think the tool of green lighting is really powerful because everyone gets an opportunity to, like you, build culture within your team that all ideas are valuable. Not all ideas will be useful, yeah, so contribution needs to be honored, so that's more of a leadership thing, but contribution needs to be like, honored and and like there needs to be room for that, yeah, or else people get stuck yeah, yeah, I love that, and I'm not a Beyonce expert by any means, just so my listeners are clear on that.

Speaker 1: 33:24

But I read a book years ago called Real Artists Don't Starve, and Jeff Goins, the author of that book, gave a stat in there. It's all about creativity and everything, and I think it's the Renaissance album that she did. I think there was like over a hundred credited writers on the album. I'm not sure how many songs are on there, but I think I think it was an average of like 10 writers per song.

Speaker 1: 33:50

You and I are both songwriters. I've never had more than probably like maybe five, and that's because it was different iterations and we brought in different writers to maybe close it out. You know, um, but again, I'm not a beyonce expert. I have no idea why I'm not saying like, well, she understands, you need collaborative community, so she gets a hundred. You know, probably not the reason, but it's just super interesting to me as a creative, as a songwriter, to say, man, if she has that, has that like what, what, what are we doing? Trying to? You know, this is my idea. You know no more than two writers. I need my 50% of royalties. It's like what are we?

Speaker 2: 34:23

doing here. Last thing I'll say on that topic is I just think that what you start to see is that when you we talked about zone of genius today, when you know what your strength is, then you will rally other people who match your strength and what they do to be, able to bring that thing to life.

Speaker 2: 34:42

And so I'm not, I love writing, but my, my strength is vocal performance. You know like I know that all day long, so like if I could, if I could show up as an artist, knowing that like I contributed to how I wanted the production to feel, how I wanted this to feel, that's cool. But I'm a live performer, performer like that's my, that's my bread and butter through and through. But I'm a studio vocalist all day and, more more specifically, you know like I'm a vocal producer, so it's like that, that's my lane. And so one of the greatest things, you know, even as my wife and I have been kind of like low-key about coming, you know, coming back and writing and creating, it's like we're going into it, knowing how we can be more effective to do the thing that we actually love to do and get the right people in the room.

Speaker 2: 35:26

So that's also a part of. I think, like when I think about a Beyonce or I think about other people who have like, they're like what benefit? Like cause again, bro, their their goal. I get that there's money in business in it, but I guarantee they go to the board and I feel like anything on the. If we were to write anything on the top of the board, it's who needs to be in the room to make this the best end result and most impactful it can be, If you are not showing up to a session of any kind to do that if you, if at the top of your board, is how acknowledged can I become?

Speaker 2: 35:58

then you're missing the entire. Thing.

Speaker 1: 36:00

Totally yeah, dude so I love that boom. So you guys may have heard these six points of how to find and build a creative community and be like maybe a couple of them have helped you a little bit, but you're still like, ah man, I just, I just don't know, I don't feel, I don't see it for me, I don't see the clear path. No one's come to mind during this podcast yet. If the person I can like text or whatever, uh, if it has, that's great, but if not, then this seventh and final point is for you and really this probably should have been like the first point that we said but, um, it is.

Speaker 1: 36:32

It is pray and pray specifically specific prayers. You know it's, it's, it's mind boggling to me. I followed Jesus since I was seven years old and it's mind boggling how much in between my ears I live and stay and I don't take it upstairs. I don't ask the Lord specific prayers about my music, songwriting, productions, films, musicals, businesses, coaching, whatever it is, all the things that I'm doing Family like specific prayers for my children, specific Bible verses for my children, for my wife, for my marriage, for my friendships, for my business, whatever it is, and so literally pray this God, bring me into creative spaces and friendships that stretch me and glorify you. I'll say that again God, bring me into creative spaces and friendships that stretch me and glorify you.

Speaker 1: 37:41

No comfort in that prayer at all. That prayer is kind of a dangerous prayer. Kind of a dangerous prayer because if he brings you know, this person into your world, tomorrow, today, next week, after you prayed this prayer, you might have to overcome some of your fear or awkwardness or rejection issues to actually have this, this prayer, be fulfilled and to walk it out. Trust that God is already positioning someone close to you. They may have not been named yet, but they're going to be a creative partner and just you know, in the, in the, in the realm of creativity. So pray, pray, specific prayers. Any final thoughts, jordan, before we close it out, just have courage.

Speaker 2: 38:32

Like as simple as that is. I think all of this, as we've gone through one, through seven, to be frank with you, even the prayer part takes courage, because we know that as we extend ourselves to the Lord and ask, he will meet us with opportunity to have to be courageous, to step out of what's comfortable. I love that and focus. I want you to focus more on the impact that you desire to make so that it can overwhelm and overcome the insecurity you might feel. That's really good.

Speaker 1: 39:04

Yeah, so just take courage. Love that, jordan. Thanks for your thoughts, man. I appreciate it. Hopefully this was encouraging to you guys. Always a joy were challenged and encouraged. Maybe you feel overwhelmed or whatever, but if nothing else, just as we leave you guys, this podcast, take this seventh point and just pray and go to the Lord, even if you have time, if you're in your car, the gym, wherever, listen to this. Just stop it right now and just take a couple of seconds even and just pray. My encouragement to you guys. Thank you so much for listening. Appreciate y'all.